Posted by Joe on April 16, 2000 at 13:06:46:

In Reply to: Re: this site is brutal (venting my frustrations) posted by Crushed4 on November 02, 1999 at 10:04:37:

> .. > ..E -


> .. The only thing that bothers me about your message
> .. is the two sided coin that is being played here.

> .. Okay, so in short you are sick of shallow people,
> .. people who only care about what you look like
> .. and how much money you can blow in an evening
> .. - etc.. But you must be careful not to apply this
> .. just to the beautiful people (as you phrased it).
> .. As you may have your mind in the right place as far
> .. as getting financial priorities in line and thinking
> .. of the future rather than the present, you have made
> .. a very discriminating/shallow remark yourself.

> .. People in glass houses....You are complaining about
> .. shallowness yet you are doing the same thing -
> .. discriminating cuz some woman might not
> .. have the right size chest or the correct color
> .. of eyes for you particular order on a female.
> .. And therefore she doesn't have a chance - only
> .. reiterating what you have posted.

Nice try, but wrong. First of all, Eric did not say that he ONLY cared about looks, he merely said that he DID care about looks. Major difference, "crushed", and you know it. Saying that he wouldn't date any woman he found unattractive, even a nice one, is not equivalent to saying that he would date any attractive woman he could, even a bitchy one.

Secondly, you are comparing honest desire with golddigging, as if the two were morally equivalent. Nonsense. A woman who marries a poor man and desires to enjoy the pleasures of wealth is still free to get a job and become wealthy on her own. There is no concept out there that the woman will be guilty of "financial infidelity" to her husband, by seeking to have her financial needs met outside of her marriage. But a man who marries a physically unattractive woman and who seeks to enjoy those pleasures that she can no provide him would be guilty of sexual infidelity. In the latter case, the man isn't giving up the freedom to be provided with a particular pleasure at that particular occasion, he's giving up the freedom to enjoy it ever, for the rest of his life - or at least as long as the marraige lasts. (Which, in some religions, will be for the rest of his life).

With an honest attractive man, who, reasonably (and in a healthy setting, realistically) expects an attractive mate, what you see is what you get. He isn't faking his desire in order to get something out of somebody else. His passion is real. The woman who marries or dates for money is simply using the one she is with as a means to an end that he's really not part of - the stuff she wants to buy with his money. The one motivated by passion shares - her pleasure is an integral part of his own. The one motivated by greed simply takes, while pretending to feel things that all, in their hearts, knows she could not even begin to understand.

What a transparently convenient notion this is for so many women - so many average looking and unattractive women who, for decades, have come to bars with childishly unrealistic and unreasonable expectations, of only dating only the best looking men and sobbing about how shallow men are when they are rejected - while ignoring the average looking or equally unattractive man by their side, going "well, I like you". Someone on this thread said "look in a mirror". Good advice. He just gave it to the wrong person.

> .. Just my thoughts.
> .. Crushed4

And fairly devious ones at that. Sorry, "crushed", but "nice" doesn't mean "weak-willed" or "gullible" and sometimes it is time to tell those manipulators (like you) who would exploit our desire to be compassionate, that it's time for them to scale their requests and their expectations down, just a touch.

What remarkable creatures, these women of the 90s were. They would sell themselves to the highest bidder and wonder how it was that men had come to see them as commodities. They would demand 'polite' lies from their lovers as the price of their affection, and then wonder why the men in their lives were so dishonest with them, or often, so resentful. They just never wanted to accept that what one is willing to give is the only thing that one has the right to expect to get, and in one way after another, "crushed", you seem to have failed to understand that one simple truth. I wonder if that will ever change.

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