Message 16754 of 29717 | Previous | Next [ Up Thread ] Message From: Jason Claiborne Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:02 pm Subject: RE: [baltwash-burning] Skyclad Question thanks dustin :) overall i don't really care what people say or how they disagree, heck it's even good for a well thought out argument to be presented but personal attacks are the weapons of the weak-minded. if this is art it must be modern, 'cause i don't get it. -----Original Message----- From: Dustin [mailto:smittydc@s...] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 4:20 PM To: baltwash-burning@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [baltwash-burning] Skyclad Question Joe, you're an idiot. I've put off saying it publicly because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I think this is the 3rd or 4th time I've seen you go off on somebody on a b-man list with your nonsense mis-interpretations of what people say or mean. For some reason this usually includes a number of personal insults. Some people are capable of communicating their points without writing dissertation length explanations - Jason is one of them. Also, people who have been on this list more than 2 months know that he is also a b-man ranger and regional contact, and as such receives tons of information on BLM/LOE/Bman interactions and is not talking out of his ass. If you aren't just an idiot, I think you must have some real anger and communication problems. Seek help. Jason, I wouldn't waste many brain cells on this guy. Interestingly, somebody pointed out that this clown might be writing these kinds of e-mails as some sort of cacophonic art prank. We can only hope that's true. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Dunphy" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: [baltwash-burning] Skyclad Question > > > Clay, your post is wrong on so many different levels, that it is hard to > know where even to begin with it. > > > sigh... it isn't make believe. it's a fact. i'm not believing what i'm > > reading... i witnessed the giving of a ticket for a sex act last year. > > * Shrug * News flash. Cops tend to be idiots. They frequently do arrest > and give tickets for acts that are perfectly legal. That is why we have > courts, and lawyers, instead of rule by police fiat. > > Guess what. Law enforcement gets overruled all of the time, sometimes, > even when it shouldn't be. Oh, and what was alleged to be "make believe" > were the roads, not the arrests. Try to read, before responding. You'll > make less of an ass of yourself, that way. > > > if the LEO's mandate that a dirt area is a street and you're facing it > > doing a lewd act, you'll get a ticket. no arguments or clever sohpistry > > will change that. > > It's true, you're right, and that's all there is to it ? Sorry, buddy, > logic and common sense are not the same thing as "sophistry". "Sophistry", > by definition, is the construction of an elaborate fallacy whose flaw is > difficult to find. It is not the rebutting of a transparent fallacy, such > as the one you put forth. > > Law enforcement officials do not have the authority to decide what the law > means. Only judges do. The fact that some nimrod with a badge has made a > pronouncement, does not guarantee that this pronouncement will stand up in > court. The ludicrous nature of this one gives room for doubt. > > > do i agree with the policy, no. will i adapt to it, yes. > > Little for me to adapt to, as I'd just as soon not have an audience when I > make love to somebody, but that is neither here nor there. Besides which, > you're changing the subject. Mark asked about public nudity. > You're talking about public intercourse. If the two were the same thing, > the birth rate in Southern France would be phenomenal. > > > overall what does it matter? people think that burningman is somehow > > not subject to the same laws that govern the rest of the country however > > those people are mistaken. burningman and you are subject to the same > > laws that > > every municipality has from local/state and federal LEO's. > > This may be the most clueless comment about a legal matter, in the history > of the Republic. Think about what you just said. "The same laws that every > municipality has ..." You clueless idiot ! Every municipality makes its > own laws. Every local court system, and every federal district, has its > own set of legal precedents. There is no such thing as "the laws that > every municipality has". In New York City, it is legal for a woman to ride > topless on the subway. In Zion, Illinois, some years back, that very same > woman could have been arrested for showing her bare ankle in public. > > Besides which, IT'S NOT A CITY. How hard is it for you to get this through > your thick skull ? "Black Rock City" is a fiction, and not even a legal > fiction. Real cities have charters. They are recognized by their states. > And they don't disband at the end of a festival, because it would really, > really annoy the state legislature to have to keep re-approving the > application on a yearly basis. (LOL, shaking head). > > But, guess what. If Black Rock City was, legally, a city, and if Nevada, > like most states, has a little something called "home rule status", guess > what the first thing you could do with those cops would be ? Yes, you > could tell them to leave. "Public decency" is defined in terms of LOCAL > community standards, and the county does not have the authority to > overrule the municipality on this. Do you think that the Cook County board > is all that thrilled about the "gentleman's clubs" that one finds in > Chicago, for example ? But, that's too damn bad, because Chicago is a home > rule unit. The same principle would apply here. > > The applicable "community standards" would be those of the electorate of > Black Rock City, ie. the burners. What it would take to go beyond those > standards, is something that I just don't even want to think about. It > would have to be pretty frigging bizarre. > > > people should > > behave as they would in any city, be discreet when you break the law > > especially since you know that in this place there are more cops per > > person than almost any other city you care to name. > > Clay, if that were true, and one really couldn't do anything at Black Rock > City that one couldn't do back home, then what would be the point to even > going ? The whole point to the festival is that normal expectations DO get > set aside, and that you CAN see and do things there, that you couldn't see > and do back home. > > I'm not going to agree to throw that little bit of freedom away, because > of an ignorant man's panicky response to a cop overstepping his bounds. > Neither will 24,000 other people at the festival, even if you do get a > handful of your friends on this list to back you up on this silliness. > Pardon me if I dredge up a cliche from the last century, but freedom isn't > free. If we back off the moment even the slightest bit of hassle makes its > appearance, we might as well all go home, and lock the doors right now, > because people like that cop will keep on pushing, until they meet > resistance. Appeasement just doesn't work. > > Clay, there's no nice way to say this, so I'll just say it. You're a > coward. You're running scared because if you do something that 'you're not > supposed to', you MIGHT get in trouble. Shit, man, if you think like > that, why are you even going ? Accidents happen. One of the fire spinners > might hit you. You might get lost in the desert. Who knows ? Who cares ? > > Life is risk, at at least some level, or it isn't lived at all, at least > not in this world. And, if all that you're ever going to do, are things > that you absolutely know won't ever get you in trouble, and you end up > living in that box, then what exactly is it about that life, that would > make you so afraid of having it disrupted, or even of losing it ? Because > let me tell you, on those terms, it's not like you're going to be missing > out on any experiences. > > Now, that's a rant, and I'd give it again. People who take on the > hardships of the desert, and then try to nudge us into acting like we were > still home ? That's just plain dumb. It's the worst of both worlds. > And, my answer is "no". > > > Joe > > > PS. Warm weather is projected for the week of my stay. I understand that > even nighttime temperatures have only been dipping down to 70. So, in > response to Mark's concerns, I plan on being nude, pretty much > the entire time I am there. If I get arrested, then I get arrested. > That's life. But I kind of doubt that I will. > > I'll write when I get back. The point here is, I'm claiming that there > is nothing to this rumor but bullshit, and I am absolutely prepared > to put "my money where my mouth is", as the cliche goes. A lot of > people do, every year, without incident. So guys, why sweat it ? > > > Baltwash-burning@egroups.com \o/ > http://www.burningman.com/ / \ > http://www.playadelfuego.org/ > ----------to get OFF THIS RIDE send a blank email to: > baltwash-burning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Baltwash-burning@egroups.com \o/ http://www.burningman.com/ / \ http://www.playadelfuego.org/ ----------to get OFF THIS RIDE send a blank email to: baltwash-burning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Message 16754 of 29717 | Previous | Next [ Up Thread ] Message Index Msg # ___ Go Reply | Forward | View Source | Unwrap Lines ______________________________________________________________________ Copyright © 2002 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help