Subject: Fwd:  Re: [burningcorn] One thing that wasn't too cool at B.C.

--- In burningcorn@y..., Joseph Dunphy wrote:


My mood has changed a bit, from where it was earlier today. Here's 
why.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Phil wrote, in response to PAUL :

> > Guys, seriously, lose the cameras, especially the videocameras.
> > Photographing people like this, without their consent, is not 
> > cool.

> This was discussed in advance, both on the web page and the email 
> list.

which does not answer the man's point at all, about the presence of 
those cameras having a chilling effect on participation at the Burn. Paul 
is right. Most of the people there did just stand and watch.

It also doesn't answer the point about consent. I'll get to that.

> If I'd shot a photo of somone who didn't want to be photographed, 
> I'd have been happy to kill it right in front of them.

I'm not so sure about that.

Um, Phil ... Hi. I'm "nekkid guy", to use your words from the photo 
page. When I saw Paul's letter, I got curious, and went over to a local
cybercafe to check out those photos. I was surprised, to say the 
least, to find myself in them. I did not give you my consent to be 
photographed as I fanned the flames. I was not even aware of the fact that 
I was being photographed. The only thing that I was told, was that I was 
helping out in a "performance piece".

I find the fact that I was not even asked, extremely offensive. 
Looking over past correspondence puts things in an even worse light, 
because you had already been told to "first ask, then shoot". In my case, 
you did absolutely nothing of the sort. You did not honor the 
understanding under which that permission was granted by the event's 
organizer and host.

How am I supposed to know to ask you to kill the photo, if I don't 
even know that you're taking it ? Please remove that photo immediately, 
and delete your records of it. If you want reasons, we can discuss those
sometime, offline, after I've had a while to cool down. But, in the
meanwhile, kindly take down any photos you have of me.

> That's one nice thing about
> electronic photography, it can be "edited out" on the fly.

Which is neither here nor there, Phil, and you know it. I might say 
the same about your "defense", that this had been announced in advance on 
this list, and on the website. Many of those of us who attended heard 
about this event secondhand, on other lists, or by word of mouth. I did 
not even know of the existence of this list until the evening before I 
went, and for obvious reasons did not have time to go through the archives 
first. I had work to get up for the next day, and preperations for the 
trip after that. When would I have been able to go back through those 
archives ?

When somebody is in that position, all that s/he is going to see, is a
camera, with absolutely no guarantees before them as to where those 
photos are going to end up. As it happens, my night vision is really bad, 
and I didn't even see the camera. Looking over the list archives, 
apparently, it seems that you have sent photos on to Columbus Public 
Access TV !
 
This is really news to me, and I definitely would not have consented.
Being nude in front of the people in the camp didn't bother me. There 
was one guy who honked his horn as he passed, and yelled "nice peepee", 
but aside from that quick trip back to Kindergarten, people were pretty 
cool about it. There was nothing to be embarassed about. But, you throw 
that onto Columbus Public Access, and you open up a whole new, and really 
big potential audience. One guy being a little silly, I can easily 
ignore. The thought that I might encounter a long string of people like 
that if I ever visit Columbus, is going to make me think twice about ever 
doing that again, if I visit Burning Corn again. Come to think of it, it 
will make me think twice about visiting Burning Corn at all, if the 
privacy of the event is going to be compromised like that, because where 
am I going to take a bath ? Certainly not in that creek, if it means I 
might end up bathing on Public Access.

Just picture how this would feel, if one was a woman living in 
Columbus. So much for "consent". So much for people feeling comfortable, 
at all.

> Have a look at the photos on the web page.  Do you recognize 
> anyone?  I took care to make them "bad" enough that you'd be unable to 
> to recognize people in them.

"Took care" ? Whatever do you mean, Phil ? I saw nothing more there, 
than the usual amount of blurring that will occur, when people are moving
quickly, and dark conditions force a long exposure. Unless you wish to
take credit for the sun setting, I'm not sure what kind of "care" 
we're supposed to see in your work, here. Nice work, I wouldn't mind 
putting some of that on my walls, but obscured ? Hardly.

And what of it ? I could recognize myself. And, even so, this is 
really not on-point. Somebody who is feeling a little shy about doing 
something, obviously can't see your photos before they are taken. What 
would incline them to do something, or not do something, is what they knew 
back then, not what they know now. So, you have not answered Paul's point 
about the chilling effect of that camera, at all.

Burning Corn bills itself as being the Midwestern extension of the 
Burning Man, an event well known for the amount of nudity that occurs at 
it. So, one would hardly be out of line if one treated it as being a 
clothing optional event. Especially if one asked around, and was assured 
that this was not a problem. Well, guess what, Phil. There is an 
ettiquette that goes along with such events, and one of them is, don't 
photograph people without their permission. If I had taken a nice, breezy 
stroll down State Street, and you snapped that photo, I'd have no cause 
for complaint, because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. 
Given some decades of established precedent at other clothing optional 
events, however, the expectations at this event, would have to be a little 
different.

I'm going to try, really hard, not to let what you did here, spoil the
memory of what I generally found to be a really good time. But, Phil, 
you were out of line, so drop the defensiveness and apologize.

As for Paul's suggestion, it is a sound one, and one the Burning Corn 
will have to adopt, if it ever wants to see any of the kind of craziness 
that Burning Man is known for.



                                               Joe
--- End forwarded message ---