Subject: Fwd:  Re: (Phil) That was really disappointing

--- In burningcorn@y..., Joseph Dunphy wrote:

Phil wrote :

(quoting somebody else)

> >      Dunno if I agree with that take on things exactly, but I 
> >      will say I'm getting a bit weary of the argument... doesn't seem 
> >      like we're all going to come to a big happy hug agreement.

* Shrug * It can be as happy, or as unhappy as Phil and his friends
decide to make it. I feel no particular dislike toward Phil at this
moment. I feel no particular fondness for Phil, either. How could I ? 
I don't know the man, because he never even introduced himself to me.

> I'm backing out of the whole debate. I made some foolish choices.

Phil, I have to give you credit for being brave enough to admit that 
on the list. Maybe your most foolish choice, was doing this in an 
impersonal way. In this case, what you should have done was come up to 
people, and say, "Hi, I'm Phil", make a little small talk, and talk about 
what you wanted to do. Yes, even after the fact. Nobody would have fed 
that camera to you, or even wanted to. A few of us would probably have 
still objected to the idea of appearing on Cable access, but just seen as 
a regular small film, shown at an arts festival, say ? I wouldn't have 
objected. I don't think that anybody else would have, either. You might 
have been surprised at just how supportive people would have been, if you 
had given them a chance to be, and if you had been willing to meet them 
halfway.

The way you did things, changed everything, and made it feel different,
and not in a good way. Things that would have been OK, suddenly weren't.

Having read some of your posts, I can guess why you might have been
shy about going up to somebody. I didn't know about the person who
threatened to beat you up, for offering to help with the sound. If things
happened the way you say they did, that was wrong, and I'm sorry that you
had that experience. But, that is not how people are going to generally
react. The problem, I think, is that you assume that people are going 
to be hostile, you react as if they were, maybe getting some friends to 
join in, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

> I'm sorry for my action with that photo,

Thank you. That's really what I wanted to hear. If you had just said 
that in the beginning, I don't think that there ever would have been a
flamewar, or any talk about complaints to Yahoo, from anybody.

Phil, the point here was not for me to play "prosecuting attorney", 
and help prove what a bad guy you were. I had a set of specific 
complaints, with the way some specific things were done. If my point was 
to show people what a bad person you were, would I be talking about ways 
you could have handled this better ? I don't think so. I would have just 
bitched.

So, you screwed up. So what ? Everybody screws up, sooner or later. 
Admit you're wrong, and just move on. Nobody's going to hold it against 
you. Nobody would want to be held up to that kind of standard.

> but I'm not sorry that I got angry.

Well, you should be. You've admitted that you were wrong. Given that, 
how can you object to being called on it ?

You know what would have happened, if you had just come clean, from the
beginning ? I would have gone back to bed, and gotten a lot more sleep.
When I woke up, and was in a more rational frame of mind, it would have
occurred to me that this photo, after all, wasn't exactly on a publicly
accessible web site. It's only being seen by subscribers to the group,
practically all of whom were at the festival, anyway. This is really 
not mass distribution.

What you did with that particular photo was wrong, because you didn't 
ask, but it's not exactly unforgivable. I'm not sorry that I flamed you, a
little. I am sorry that I used a blowtorch, where a pocket lighter 
would have been enough. I should have known better than to post when I was 
still feeling tired and cranky. It's not like it's the first time I've 
ever been sleep deprived.

> Most every comment and reply that I make, this one included, draws
> accusations of me being a liar, or otherwise despicable person.

Maybe this will seem like a fine point to you, but nobody was 
accusing you of being a liar, you were being accused of lying. There's a 
big difference. Were you less than honest, on this occasion ? The record 
makes it clear that you were, and it's up there in black and white in the
archives, well beyond debate. Are you a dishonest person in general ? 
I have no idea. I don't know you. But, I can tell you that when you try 
to intimidate people into dropping the subject, by going on the attack 
when your actions are justly criticised, and you resort to the use of 
straw man arguments, you aren't helping yourself. It makes you look bad.

Do I think that you're a despicable person ? No, I think you're a 
timid person who acted without thinking. I hope that you don't take that 
as an insult, because it's not intended as one. But I would suggest that 
if you were a little less quick to assume the worst, it would probably 
come your way a lot less often.

> Further comments on this will not draw a response from me.

which is a shame. You seem to want to do the photography thing. People
have been talking to you, about how that could be made to work. I'm 
not too good at it, if only because I've just started, but Photography is 
a passion of mine, too. Believe it or not, I really am sympathetic 
toward your desire to pursue this artform, yes, even at the festival. But 
there's a right way, and a wrong way to do anything.

You said that you're not much of an artist. I don't know about that. 
Maybe this is your chance to establish that, one way or another. Because 
if you're going to give up an opportunity to practice your art, instead 
of talking things over with people, and working out a reasonable 
compromise that meets everybody's needs, then I'd have to say that you're 
not acting like much of an artist. If it means that much to you, you 
should be doing what you can to make that work. And that doesn't mean 
walking away, when the discussion stops being a one-sided flamewar being 
fought on your behalf, or when you find that you have to accept that there 
is going to be a little give and take. It means, a willingness to work 
things out.

That's going to be true, wherever you go. So, let's talk.


                                                 Joe
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