Subject: Fwd:  Ban Crossposting From Burning Corn!

--- In burningcorn@y..., Every Man <every.man@p...> wrote:
By golly I think it's disrespectful to crosspost his email to another
list without his permission! If someone doesn't remove this email
from that Chicago list, I'll personally see to it that Yahoo
shuts this list down, and my lawyer will sue your ass for punitive
damages! This is a PRIVATE list, and our email should be
treated as such!

At 12:32 AM 8/6/2001 -0500, you wrote:


>I think that this is likely to veer into a discussion that will be of
>limited interest to the folks in Ohio, so I've crossposted this to 
the
>local Burn list in Chicago.
>
>
>On Mon, 6 Aug 2001, king wilson wrote:
>
> >
> > > > well, not exactly.  I would never ban anything.  I just think 
that, 
> in a
> > > > perfect world,
> > >
> > >I wonder if the concept of "a perfect world" means anything. 
What is
> > >perfection defined in terms of ?
> >
> >   It means something when used in Theoretical discussions.
>
>I would tend to disagree.
>
> > In this case, It
> > means "If Everyone acted the way I do".....
>
>If everybody acted the way you did, you would never experience a 
surprise
>for the rest of your life. That would be a pretty harsh 'blessing', I
>think. On the other hand, differences guarantee that there will be
>occasional friction. What you gain on the one hand, with a shift in
>reality, you lose on the other. Perfection is not even theoretically
>attainable, and so it is not theoretically meaningful, I think.
>
>It is important to keep this in mind, perhaps, because knowing that
>something is not there to be had, can do a lot to reduce the desire 
for
>it, and the desire for "perfect love and trust", as the cliche goes, 
is an
>easy one to become obsessed with, if one is not careful. Maybe it is 
a
>thing to keep a cautious distance from.
>
> > >
> > > >   Part of the reason I've been vocal in this conversation, is 
that 
> MTV's
> > > >   The
> > > >   Real World is filming right down the street from me, so this
> > > >   conversation
> > > >   has been a common one around here lately......
> > >
> > >Please explain.
> >
> >
> > MtV's The Real World Chicago, (which I guess will air next year) 
is based
> > right down the street from me, in the Wicker Park neighborhood 
(It's
> > basically across the street from the Double Door, if that means 
anything)
>
>Double door ? No. But I understand that the cast is in the old Urbis 
Orbis
>space (* sniff *)  :(  (If you're not from Chicago, Urbis Orbis was 
this
>nice, comfortably unpretentious coffeehose, where people of all ages 
and
>backgrounds could go hang out, and meet each other. Nothing that 
fancy,
>and, unfortunately, nothing that profitable. It went out of 
business, when
>Wicker Park became a place that people wanted to live. Perversely 
enough,
>one of the reasons Wicker Park became such a place, was because of 
the
>presence of businesses like Urbis Orbis).
>
> >   Various activist groups have been staging protests lately, 
outside their
> >   house.  The neighborhood has become the subject of MUCH debate 
lately,
> >   as yuppies push the working class and artists out of the area 
with
> >   skyrocketing rents, and things like starbucks.
>
>Actually, not recently at all. This has been going on for years. I'm
>pleasantly amazed that Wicker Park hasn't turned into a concentrated
>version of Schaumburg.
>
> > People see it as an invasion by one of
> > the largest corporations in the world, into an area that, for the 
last 10
> > years, has been filled with people trying to escape shit like 
that.
>
>Yes, fairly typical. There does seem to be something almost 
totalitarian
>about the corporate subculture - it doesn't seem to care for the 
existence
>of alternatives.
>
> >  As the protests have become bigger, some of the anger has been 
directed
> > (wrongly, imho) towards the participants themselves, with lots of 
> chanting,
> > flyering, etc.  In fact, an article in a recent newspaper has 
said that 
> the
> > kids in the Real World are so freaked out by all of this that 
they fear
> > leaving the house, with the huge camera outfit that goes with 
them (4 
> guys,
> > all  walking backward, with various equipment shoved RIGHT in 
their 
> faces.
> > Noticeable from about 10 miles away)
>
>So, they're being scapegoated. That's a shame, but unfortunately, to 
be
>expected. "The corporate world" is a pretty faceless semi-monolith. 
These
>kids show up, and they become a convenient symbol for what is hated.
>
> > Anyway, now the cops come in and arrest anyone around the 
building.  A
> > couple of dj's at my pirate station got busted last weekend.
>
>Yeah. Um, I'm not quite sure what to think about that. The police 
have
>reportedly being indulging in some frivolous arrests. (Like arresting
>somebody for asking why somebody was being arrested). On the other 
hand,
>at least in the Reader account, it did sound like the demonstration
>bordered on harassment. If somebody gathered down on Elm Street, and
>started shouting obscenities at my window for hours on end, I don't 
think
>that I'd be too concerned about their first amendment rights, after a
>while, either. There is such a thing as going too far.
>
> > Plus, there is this huge artist space, in the same intersection 
of town.
> > The landlord is installing internet cameras in all the hallways 
and common
> > spaces, and is going to put the video feeds on the Net, as some 
sort of
> > voyeristic site.  Really fucking stupid, and it's being done 
without the
> > consent of the tenents.  He didn't even ask them.  So they are 
trying to
> > raise hell around town.....but that's another story entirely.
>
>Indeed it is. Yes, I heard about that, complete with the story of the
>retaliatory eviction of a tenant who tried to mobilize a protest 
against
>the placement of the cameras.
>
>I have to be honest, King. Your neighborhood is not my favorite one, 
at
>this point. Too much nastiness, seemingly for its own sake. We may 
be a
>little dull, here in Streeterville. OK, a lot dull. But we have to 
deal
>with Yuppies, too, and it hasn't turned us mean. Yes, there is more 
to do
>in your neighborhood, but I wonder how much people enjoy it.
>
>Maybe what some of the people in Wicker need to do, every once in a 
while,
>is get out of the neighborhood, take a breather in more peaceful
>surroundings, and get a little distance from the situation. What's 
the
>good of beating JDL development, and the like, if you end up with a
>community of people who hate each other ?
>
> >    So, as I said, these issues have been discussed around town 
alot lately.
>
>Yes, it has. The rest of the city is aware of the facts. What has 
been
>unclear to the rest of us, has been the motivation. Now that I hear 
it, my
>thought is "those poor kids". Dumb move on MTV's part. Obviously, 
they
>didn't bother to scout out the local landscape first.
>
>I don't even want to think about this. That bed is looking mighty 
nice,
>right about now.
>
>
>                                                Joe
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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