What was Dustin's problem? Aside from the probable need to have his Prozac dosage upped, he was one of the participants in that ludicrous "City Streets" argument over in the baltwash-burning list, about whether or not the fact that one could be seen from one of the so-called "streets" in the fictional Black Rock City meant that one was in a public place and subject to arrest for indecent exposure. Notice that my mention of that argument was one of the so-called "rants" that he linked to. This argument was a losing one for Dustin's side, from the very beginning. How can one get to Burning Man, and not notice how many people there are naked?

Obviously, the moment the newbies reading this get to the event, Dustin's side will lose the argument, unless Dustin's side can either succeed in rewriting history, or get the newbies to not notice, oh, about 10,000 naked bodies or more. Like a lot of the crazies online, Dustin didn't like losing arguments, and started following me from list to list, seeking revenge for the terrible injury I did to his ego, through the thoughtless act of making sense, at a time when he felt like babbling.

Some like to use the term "cyberstalking" for the kind of behavior I would see out of Dustin. I think that's overdramatic, and prefer the expression "revenge posting". His opportunity to be petty would present itself on the New York Burning Man list, in August of 2001.








I'm sure you've noticed the title of this page.

Have a feeling of Deja Vu? Like you're seeing something that you thought was over? I know the feeling. The day after I told Tara Ball (from the New York list) to go away, with amply good reason as you have already seen, she decided to sob on the list about the fact, even after I had apologized to her by private e-mail for something that didn't call for an apology. Looking back, I wish I had told her to grow up and maybe go to Hell, but I just had to be nice to somebody who clearly didn't deserve it, a decision I would soon regret ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 03:06:56 -0500 (CDT)
  • From: me
  • To: Burn List <newyork-list@burningman.com>
  • Subject: RE: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, taraball wrote:

> .. Listen Shady I was just talking about good old common sense. Something
> .. we could all use a dose of, Between you and that Joe guy I almost cried
> .. myself to sleep last nite.

Well, I am sorry to hear that you cried, but I am a little surprised. This
is not how you've been portrayed in private e-mail, at all. There, people
have been painting an image of a vindictive individual who delights in
going for blood when somebody contradicts her. Here, I see somebody a lot
more human than the person I've been told to expect, and maybe a lot
easier to hurt than I thought. I am sorry if you were that upset.
I would have been far gentler with you, had I known.

But Tara, playing with somebody's head a little, especially a stranger's,
is just not a game we play in the wee hours of the morning. People are
tired. They want to go to sleep. They tend to be a little cranky. So,
please, save this sort of thing for earlier in the evening, when people
are more themselves, and I think that you might get a better and more
playful response out of people. I assume that's what you want.



.........................................................................Joe





Dustin then used this effort to make peace as an opportunity to initiate a gang flame ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:02:24 -0400
  • From: Dustin <smittydc@starpower.net>
  • To: newyork-list@burningman.com
  • Subject: Re: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
You might try not reading your e-mail when you know you are likely to be a cranky twit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Dunphy"
To: "Burn List" <newyork-list@burningman.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:06 AM
Subject: RE: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss

(text of last paragraph in my previous letter deleted)









... and Jessea Perry just couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk down to somebody whose entire "crime" consisted of telling Ms.Ball to go away, and stop bothering him with foolish messages ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:31:33 -0400
  • From: Jessea Perry <jessea.perry@wk.com>
  • To: 'Joseph Dunphy'
    Burn List <newyork-list@burningman.com>
  • Subject: RE: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
i've got to say, i'm really concerned about the serious LACK of SENSES OF HUMOR i see on this list.

(complete text of my previous letter deleted)





For some odd reason, I found the condescension annoying, ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:24:28 -0500 (CDT)
  • From: Joseph Dunphy
  • To: Dustin <smittydc@starpower.net>
  • Cc: newyork-list@burningman.com
  • Subject: Re: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Dustin wrote:

> .. You might try not reading your e-mail when you know you are likely to be a
> .. cranky twit.

Excellent advice, Dustin. You might start by taking it yourself. Be a pal, and write back to us after your nap.



.........................................................................Joe



PS. You might also try knowing what you're talking about before posting, but, hey, that's like saying that the Playa might be transformed into a lush tropical paradise. Some possibilities, we don't hold our breath waiting for.





And then Phil offered a flawed analysis of the situation ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:10:21 -0400 (EDT)
  • From: Philip W. Darnowsky <pdarnows@qis.net>
  • To: Jessea Perry <jessea.perry@wk.com>
  • Cc: 'Joseph Dunphy'
    Burn List <newyork-list@burningman.com>
  • Subject: RE: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Jessea Perry wrote:

> .. i've got to say, i'm really concerned about the serious LACK of SENSES OF
> .. HUMOR i see on this list.

The same thing happened on the baltwash burn list just before the last Playa del Fuego. As a burn comes closer, anticipation and nerves get higher and people get tense. So please, as a public service, if you find yourself wanting to flame a fellow burner, take a deep breath, drink a Bloody Mary, and don't do it.





Phil Darnowsky ...... pdarnows@qis.net

due to circumstances beyond your control
you are master of your fate
and captain of your soul






I could not believe what I was reading. The entire mini-flamewar had begun after Dustin and a few of his friends had gone on the attack in response to my attempt to soothe Tara's nerves. Taking the proverbial sight of a flag of truce as the signal to begin shooting is one of the cowardly acts imaginable in any setting. Responding as gently as the repulsive circumstances allowed, I wrote:






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:22:44 -0500 (CDT)
  • From: Joseph Dunphy
  • To: Philip W. Darnowsky <pdarnows@qis.net>
  • Cc: Jessea Perry <jessea.perry@wk.com>, Burn List <newyork-list@burningman.com>
  • Subject: RE: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Philip W. Darnowsky wrote:

> .. On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Jessea Perry wrote:
>
> .. > .. i've got to say, i'm really concerned about the serious LACK of SENSES OF
> .. > .. HUMOR i see on this list.
>
> .. The same thing happened on the baltwash burn list just before the last Playa
> .. del Fuego. As a burn comes closer, anticipation and nerves get higher and
> .. people get tense. So please, as a public service, if you find yourself
> .. wanting to flame a fellow burner, take a deep breath, drink a Bloody
> .. Mary, and
> .. don't do it.


Bloody Mary? No. (Salty Vodka drinks! Bleh!) A nice sherry? Yes!

Sigh. Why do people online always feel the need to dredge up what has already been smoothed over, in order to be "helpful"? This has nothing to do with pre-trip jitters, and it has already been covered, at length. I suppose that I could forward the entire correspondence, but what would be the point?

Shall we move on?


Joe






... which was followed by another mindless "me too" post ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:39:54 -0400
  • From: nicole alicia miziolek <anomalylune@hotmail.com>
  • To: jessea.perry@wk.com, (my address), newyork-list@burningman.com
  • Subject: RE: [BManNYC] Druuuggggssss
i concur...one of the greatest things i've learned about living a happy life is when you realize that taking yourself so seriously is silly, and you can laugh and joke about yourself more.....you guys seem to just need to relax, do yoga, masturbate, have an awesome meal, whatever, and then laugh and be silly and chill out....hopefully the playa will unwind some of the springs....
(Full text of Jessea Perry's letter deleted for brevity).





Taking myself too seriously? (Note that Jessea Perry's letter was a direct followup to my letter, and this one to Jessea's, so there is no mystery as to who this commentary was directed at). Because I asked somebody to stop bothering me with bizarre and foolish messages? What could this woman possibly have been on, as she wrote this?

I was getting more than a little annoyed by now, and probably would have said something about this, but Jonathon Moll soon popped in with something far more obnoxious. Being careful to change the title, making it difficult for the casual reader to find the thread from which Moll had taken this quote (ripping it out of its context), and being careful to remove all quoted material from my reply, and the other names from the carbon copy line, Jonathon deceptively wrote ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:43:48 -0400
  • From: Jonathan D. Moll <jd@fivebyfive.com>
  • To: newyork-list@burningman.com
  • Subject: I'm not paranoid. What are you looking at?
Jeez Joe, cover the left eye and read the second line... Who's dredging? Kudos to Phil for reminding us to breathe deeply and calm the nerves and to Jessea with her call to keep it light. Just because you think all emails are about you doesn't make it so. By all means DON'T forward the list anything.

But any time you want to move on, you can stop replying to the LIST.

jdm
(Full text of my reply to Phil deleted for brevity)





"What?", I thought, "are you fucking kidding me?". There was quoted material in those letters, and there were the addresses in the carbon copy line, leaving no real mystery as to which letter was a followup to which in the mind of any remotely reasonable man who had seen all of the posts in that thread and remembered them. There was a context created by the history of these threads ... in other words, these weren't isolated letters, there was a discussion going on, simple enough that nobody with an IQ higher than that of a stalk of celery could have had any trouble telling who was responding to whom at any given moment. At least, not without an opportunistic attempt to quote one out of context.

Trolling like this did not deserve a gentle response ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:18:49 -0500 (CDT)
  • From: Joseph Dunphy
  • To: newyork-list@burningman.com
  • Subject: Re: [BManNYC] I'm not paranoid. What are you looking at?
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Jonathan D. Moll wrote:

> .. Jeez Joe, cover the left eye and read the second line... Who's
> .. dredging?

Mr. Moll, you are in a very weak position to be giving me lectures about reading comprehension skills.

> .. Kudos to Phil for reminding us to breathe deeply and calm
> .. the nerves and to Jessea with her call to keep it light.
> .. Just because
> .. you think all emails are about you doesn't make it so.

Are you a troll or merely a complete idiot? Those letters did not arise in a vacuum. They are followups to letters that have publicly appeared on this list. Those letters give context to the ones that follow.

Stupidity is not an endearing trait, Jonathan and earnest, self-righteous stupidity is even less endearing. The next time you feel like running your mouth off, try to know what you are talking about. Reading all the way to the bottom of the letter you are replying to, is a good start. I realize that this will tax your attention span, and might just short out the three neurons that comprise your cerebral cortex, but go for it! Be brave.

Sometimes, you just have to live on the edge.

> .. By all means
> .. DON'T forward the list anything.

That doesn't even make sense.

> .. But any time you want to move on, you can stop replying to the LIST.

And any time you want to enjoy the "pleasure" of fights that never end, because nobody ever has the sense to just let something rest, you can go sign up for Usenet. There's a newsgroup called alt.flame that I'm sure that you'll enjoy immensely. But, as strange as it may seem to you, some of us would rather work our misunderstandings out, than wallow in them on a semi-permanent basis. Sorry if that upsets you, but that's life for you. People making peace with each other, all willy-nilly, with hardly a thought as to how this will affect Jonathon Moll. I'm so ashamed.

Now, go take your medication, and get over it.

Joe
(Quoted material from Moll's letter deleted)





I couldn't help but wonder if people on this list even knew how to read. Around this point, expecting nothing more than more trolling, I stopped reading this thread, and so missed seeing this letter until about a year later, as I was putting this page together. Here, Jamie Slater, also known as "Pippi" today, affecting a friendly tone, would go for manipulation where intimidation has failed, and actually have the nerve to imply that Jon and company had simply been misunderstood, as if I could not see the personal attacks that had just been written with my own eyes.

She would start the "soft soaping" by saying that maybe I was feeling ganged up on. Gosh, what ever would have made me think that? I wasn't at all suprised, about a year later, to find that this 'friendly' individual had joined with her friends in a group backbiting at my expense, almost 11 months after I had left the list, and was no longer there to defend myself. Why not? Like any good actress, she would have no trouble changing scripts, once it was time to put on a new show ...






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:39:02 -0400
  • From: "Slater, Jamie" <jamie_slater@ghgroup.com>
  • To: 'Joseph Dunphy'
  • Cc: "NYC Burning Man (E-mail)" <newyork-list@burningman.com> Subject: RE: [BManNYC] I'm not paranoid. What are you looking at?
<everyone huddle up

Hey Joe,

Even though I'm copying the Burn List, Im writing this to you, cause I wanna let you know Ive gone through this stuff with this list before (I think everyone has), and its really easy to feel ganged up on, especially if you dont know these people in person. I know the feeling of being irritated to hell by things people say on the list, and many times I've written big page long rebuttals and sat there deciding whether or not to send them......and sometimes I have. I'm an arguer by nature.

But the more you watch and listen, and come to the gatherings and meet everyone, you figure out that everyone here is really cool, and nobody's really trying to pick a fight. The list just gets a little egg-shell-like sometimes. Sarcasm is often lost with mere text, and many times things like the word "you" is misconstrued as being personal.... but mostly is meant as a general term to a large group. And also, everyone has a bad day.

If possible, let it roll..... and you'll realize that the next time you meet someone you've had a spat with they'll still be shaking your hand and buying you a drink...... and you'll feel kinda sheepish (baaaah...)

We shouldnt be stressing ourselves out anymore than we already are. And remember, the friends you make on the playa are some of the best people you'll ever meet in your life. Give 'em a chance.

Thats my two cents, just tryin to save eveyone a few ulcers.

Hee Haw.

okay.... 1...2...... BREAK!

<sorry for being corny, but its all true; thats why we're here, right?>





Yes, if you aren't awake, and are just hearing the tone without paying attention to the content, that sounds like a very pleasant letter. But then we all know the game where one bends down to one's pet dog, and in the sweetest tone of voice says the most awful things to it, only to be amused as it wags its tail. If we should show a little more understanding than that dog, how strange that so many will object!

Getting past the tone, one finds a barely veiled insult in that letter. Ms. Slater suggests that I've been a fool, and have done her friends an injustice (that I haven't given them a chance), and that I did wrong by standing up for myself (and should stop doing so). No matter what one's tone of voice is, that's a really insulting thing to imply, to say nothing of its being an inversion of reality. For example, look again at Moll's letter. There is no reasonable doubt as to who he is referring to when he says "you". No rational person could dispute that I was being attacked, a fact that the 'friendly' Pippi voiced no objection to then, or ever, in the year to come. These are supposed to be my "friends"? In real life, most of my enemies deal with me on more honorable terms.

Showing about as much concern for the facts, Colleen Mulleedy then chimed in with a "both sides are wrong" type post ...






hey yall

as per usual, sniping on the list has roused me to post. i don't know how some folks have so much time to send inane email. the time is drawing near. go work on a costume. go work on gifts for the beautiful people. go make some art. or, if that's too constructive, at least have the decency to reply to each other off list.

kmomma





Seeing his opportunity, Dustin then spoke up in support of this mini-rant. To read his letter, one would never suspect that he had been the original instigator who started the very flamewar that Mulleedy was now complaining about. Nor did any of the regulars care enough about the truth to bring this minor detail up. The man gains political points by disassociating himself from the very argument his personal attack had started, without ever apologizing for or even acknowledging the existence of that attack? How can anybody not see the injustice of that?






  • Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:49:29 -0400
  • From: Dustin <smittydc@starpower.net>
  • To: newyork-list@burningman.com
  • Subject: Re: [BManNYC] Jesus
I second that emotion. If anybody's short of ideas or projects to work on, let me know, I've got dozens that I won't have time to get to this year.

But fuck it's hot down here in DC... I went to pick up some paint at lunch and I practically melted.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colleen Mulleedy" <colleenmulleedy@funnygarbage.com>
To: <newyork-list@burningman.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: [BManNYC] Jesus
(Full text of Colleen Mulleedy's letter cut for brevity).





The friendly exchange about drinking preferences that I had mentioned near the top of an earlier page had spun off of this flamewar at about the point where Phil showed up, and this lead to a private e-mail exchange between me and Ms. Slater, whose position seemed to change when nobody else was around. After we wrote






" JS : We always wondered if the winos had a nice chardonnay if the rules would change.

Me : Perhaps. But how would they ever get the hors d'oevre table out there? "





Ms. Slater sent me a bit of e-mail where, suddenly, she was on my side, or so one might think if one was reading her letters out of context. Which, of course, I was, as she knew, once I mentioned that I was no longer following the thread ...






" JS : True, true. Dim Sum, anyone?

PS.... I hope you dont feel attacked by what I said..... Ive been in your position before, and you seem like a cool guy.

Me : No worries. I didn't even read it. I've taken to ignoring that whole thread. I'm just going to let the whole incident burn itself out. There are a few people who seem to want to keep it alive, but as neither Tara nor I are in favor of this, I doubt that they're going to get their wish.

Stuff happens. It's a "was", if that makes any sense.

JS : excellent. use the force, luke. "





But, of course, I was wrong, as I found out the moment that I got to Asylum village, where I immediately found myself being cold-shouldered by most of the people there, the moment that they knew my name. Reportedly Tara, who had acted like we were at peace by private e-mail, had spread the bad word in my absence, with a little help from her friends. This is something that I have come to hate about a lot of burners. One never knows where one stands with them.





What is remarkable about this thread? Go into the New York list archives. Note that I have chopped nothing out, that this really is the chain of followups that were in place. Something would be said at one moment, and in the next, it was as if the regulars couldn't remember what they had just heard, and couldn't see why it mattered. There was no sign that they even thought that the truth was an issue, here, an attitude which I would find to be very common in the Burningman forums.

The bizarre and disjointed thought processes seen here aren't unprecedented or even, in retrospect, much of a surprise. They fall under the category of what some would call "junkie logic", and drug use was certainly widespread at Burningman and related events. There was a lesson in that fact that I should have picked up on far more quickly, and probably would have, but for the lingering prejudices from a libertarian past.




Let's continue.