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#1 2008-02-07 04:07:30

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Modifying Files

Just installed MP3Boss and am a little confused about what it does.

Of course the fact that Help doesn't work under Vista doesn't help.
Is there an on-line version of Help that I haven't found?

Note:  I installed 6.037, will update to beta soon.

My questions are:

1.  Why do most of my Genres say "Other" when they are reported correctly
in WMP and even the Vista Exployer?

2.  A change made in MP3Boss does not seem to show up in the MP3 file
(as a test I changed Genre for one song).  What do I have to do to make
MP3Boss write?

3.  Rename/Move files ... doesn't MP3Boss do this?  I confused about
your answer to the "How do a rebuild my database?" question:

> 3) Do your copies of the mp3 files include the updated comment and
> tag information (in other words, did you use MP3-Boss to write the
> tag information out to those files)?  If they include all the updated
> information ... then simply rescanning would create a new database
> with all your comments ... but wouldn't rename your files or organize your drive.

I assumed the answer just be delete DB and rescan, but from your answer
it sounds like MP3Boss doesn't actually rename or move anything.

Simple tests show MP3Boss renames my files, but I can't find "CopyDown"
that you talk about in another answer.  I moved on file by changing its
path and then selected a group of file paths, with the modified path
being the first one selected; now what?

4.  How do you delete the DB and start over?  Are there some "empty" MDB
files you copy over your current DB?

Looks like a great program that will do just what I want, once
I figure it out smile

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#2 2008-02-07 04:19:50

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

I did find I could make Help work under Vista by downloading WinHlp32,
MB KB 917607

Now I have to read it smile

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#3 2008-02-07 04:49:27

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

I should probably automatically put up a message on VISTA installation to get WinHLP -- thanks for letting me know you got that working OK.  There is also online help:
http://www.mp3-boss.com/help/boss.htm
...but it isn't any better than the online.  I really need to update the help!

I'll try to answer your other questions:
1) Genre = Other
Genre in MP3-Boss is specific to the ID3v1 tag format.  Because of the ID3v1 structure, a Genre can only be 1 of 255 different categories -- so frequently you'll find it as 'Other'.  However, the User_Category (or User_Category1 in MP3-Boss) can be anything.  A little bit more information is here:
http://web.newsguy.com/mccaffjt/punbb/v … .php?id=52

Is the User_Category also 'Other' for those files that are reported differently in WMP or VISTA?  If they are, could you please send me an example file?

2) Writing changes to files:
After making your changes to the data, bring up the Tag editor (TAG button right above the Winamp controls in List View), select the "Edited Only" filter and then Auto-Update ALL.  That will write the changes to the files...

3. Move/Rename:
Click the "AutoMove" button on the List View toolbar -- tons of options to move & rename.

...Rescan to rebuild the database:
Rescanning would rebuild the database, but the MP3-Boss database stores a lot of information that would let you auto-rebuild the structure before the crash (e.g., renaming files).  Internally there are some checksums for each file that can identify the file even if the name changes.  So...I'm thinking about creating a 'crash-restore' feature that will automate that process.

CopyDown:
This button is on the List View page, right above the Winamp controls.  Once you've selected that group of paths, just click CopyDown and it will move everything to the new (first) path.

4) Deleting the database:
Just set the Scan Type to "Overwrite" on the Scan page before starting the scan.  This clears out all the data and compacts the data.

Let me know if you have more questions!

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#4 2008-02-07 11:04:33

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Thanks for your quick reply.  The "CopyDown" button couldn't have
been closer to my selection ... I must be getting blind smile

Most of our Music DB consists of Albums ripped (using Windows Media
Player 10 and 11) from CDs we own.  We were very careful to
set the Album Artist field (and the Genre) before doing the rip
because that field determines the folder WMP puts the Album in.

I discovered MP3-Boss because someone had been told by MS that
he couldn't print his Music DB and I was looking for a tool that
would let him.  Have yet to play with the MP3 reports, but the
fact that it is so easy to either open in Access, or copy and
paste into Open Office (or Excel) makes it a wonderful tool.

Also makes reorganizing files (when WMP puts Albums in the
wrong folder as it has a want to do) so easy ... very nice!

I'm prefectly willing to set the User_Category in MP3-Boss
for the 8,000 files I have as long it will get reflected back
into WMP and Vista.   The other fields that are important to
me that don't seem to get set in MP3-Boss are: Composer and
Album Artist.

I'm not sure how to post the screen shots, so have put them
here:  http://www.cherryfield.net/resources/mp … reen01.htm

They show:

An Album in MP3-Boss (I squished the columns so most would fit ...
I couldn't get the width of the listing to extend to the full
width of my screen (2560 pixels).

The same Album as viewed in WMP

The Album folder as viewed in Windows (Vista) Explorer.

There is also a link to one of the MP3 files you requested,
it was ripped by WMP (XP version, not Vista).

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#5 2008-02-09 09:09:18

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

The problem with the "Broadway" category is that it isn't one of the standard Genre selections (in other words, it isn't included in the ID3v1 list).  However, Mp3-Boss did pickup "Broadway" as the Content Description that you can find in the ID3v2(a) tab of the Detail view.

I've fixed the problem in the next release (v0.642) so that it automatically adds the new category in User_Category.  Genre will still be shown as "Other".

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#6 2008-02-09 10:10:58

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Great!  As long as I can do edits of the User_Category, save them, and they show back up in Vista and WMP I'll become a happy user.  (Understand why they won't show as Genre in MP3-Boss.)

What about the Composer and Album Artist fields?

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#7 2008-02-09 10:30:55

mccaffjt
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Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

The composer is shown as "Stephen Sondheim" on the ID3v2(a) detail page.

I also see the Band/Orchestra as "Stephen Sondheim" on the ID3v2(d) detail page.  Is Band/Orchestra the same as "Album Artist"?

Should I be adding those 2 items to List View?

As long as I know what I should be saving in the ID3v2 tag, it is easy for me to add new fields.  As you can see from the IDv2(a...d) tabs ... there is an awful lot that can be in a tag, and 99% of it seems to be very rarely (if ever) used ... so I don't update that tag information when updating tags.

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#8 2008-02-09 11:22:50

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

It's no wonder you have a hard time deciding which fields to use ... to give you more info I took a small file and changed the fields that I've been using in WMP and am going to send you the file.  However, I need to experiment more first ... the modified values don't seem to show in Vista Explorer even though they do in WMP.  (I made the changes in the WMP advanced Tag editor.)

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#9 2008-02-09 12:59:45

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

OK, Originally had no idea what to tell you, experiments described
below were designed to allow you to help me play detective.

Now I finally know enough to say the field of most interest to me
is Band/Orchestra in ID3v2d, the other one (less critical) is
Composer in ID3v2a.

THANKS AGAIN!  I'm liking MP3-Boss more and more!
===
After writing everything below I found where MP3-Boss showed me all
the tag tabs and their values.  Guess there is hope.  What appears
in WMP as "Album Artist" and is an important top-level sort is stored
in ID3v2d as Band/Orchestra (but not in the Orchestra field of the
list view).  The Composer field which I see in WMP, but is less
important shows up as Composer in ID3v2a.  The Title field didn't
really loose its value ... I must have changed it after making
the 20Copy because I was confused about which file was which in WMP.
Ignore Vista Explorer comments, new values showed up (but only for
the 15Mod file) MUCH later ... have no idea why (we'll blame it on
the operator, but have no idea what I did to make them appear).

In the file http://www.cherryfield.net/resources/mp … le-Mod.mp3

I used the WMP advanced tag editor (ATE) to change four [only 3 at first]
fields.  Original:

  Title:  Finale
  Album Artist:  Stephen Sondheim
  Contributing Artist:  Stephen Sondheim (field just called Artist in the ATE)
  Composer:  Stephen Sondheim

Changed To:

  Title:  Finale - Title
  Album Artist:  Stephen Sondheim - AlbArst
  Contributing Artist:  Stephen Sondheim - Artist/ContribArtst
  Composer:  Stephen Sondheim - Cmpsr

However, when I then look at the "Mod" file in Vista Explorer
NONE of the values have changed.  If you can't find any of the
above values in any of the tags there's no hope.

I then copied the file (using a DOS based C-shell, so Explorer
didn't know anything about it) and created the file:
  http://www.cherryfield.net/resources/mp … e-Copy.mp3

Vista Explorer did let me change one field (called Artists) using
the details pane.  (I know that with some diddles to the registry
I can change what fields that pane displays, but don't think I
have for mp3 files.)

I changed the field to "Stephen Sondheim; Artist added in Explorer"
(It would only let me add text, I couldn't delete the semicolon or
the name before that.)

I had to make WMP scan my music library before that change showed
up and when it did, only the field called Contributing Artist was
changed in WMP, the Title, Album Artist, Composer had all gone back
to their original values.

Would make me think these fields might not be stored in the MP3
file, only the WMP DB.  However, I don't really believe that because
I know I often change the Album Artist field (because I know WMP
names the top level folder based on that) and then I copy the
entire Music folder structure to another machine and let WMP
scan and build a new DB, and the Album Artist is correct (set
to what I changed it to before ripping).  (In the chance that
WMP used the name of the grand-parent folder as the Album Artist
I copied the 20Copy file into a test Album folder under a SteveFooBar
folder, but the Album Artist kept the original unchanged/unedited value.

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#10 2008-02-10 11:15:15

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

Here's what v0.642 will do with the songs you provided (I also added a WMA file that comes with WinXP as an additional example).  These all show up in List View.  Is this what you expect?

Filename    01Company.mp3
Title    Company
Artist    Dean Jones
Album    Company [Original Broadway Cast] [Bonus Track]
User_Category    Broadway
Year    1998
Track    01
Genre    Other
TrackArtist    Dean Jones
Band    Stephen Sondheim
Composer    Stephen Sondheim

Filename    15Finale-Mod.mp3
Title    Finale - Title
Artist    Stephen Sondheim - Artist/ContribArtst
Album    Company [Original Broadway Cast] [Bonus Track]
User_Category    Broadway
Year    1998
Track    15
Genre    Other
TrackArtist    Stephen Sondheim - Artist/ContribArtst
Band    Stephen Sondheim - AlbArst
Composer    Stephen Sondheim - Cmpsr

Filename    20Finale-Copy.mp3
Title    Finale
Artist    Stephen Sondheim/Artist added in Explorer
Album    Company [Original Broadway Cast] [Bonus Track]
User_Category    Broadway
Year    1998
Track    15
Genre    Other
TrackArtist    Stephen Sondheim/Artist added in Explorer
Band    Stephen Sondheim
Composer    Stephen Sondheim

Filename    New Stories (Highway Blues).wma
Title    "Highway Blues"
Artist    Marc Seales / New Stories / Ernie Watts
Album    Speakin' Out
User_Category    Jazz
Year    1999
Track    01
Genre    Jazz
TrackArtist    Ludwig van Beethoven, composer. Seattle Symphony. Gerard Schwarz, director
Band   
Composer

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#11 2008-02-10 12:15:09

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Looks good, can't wait to try it!  Even an early beta.

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#12 2008-02-10 12:45:27

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

I'll make the release shortly.

Once a couple people try it out, I plan to make v0.642 the official release - I've changed 10-20 lines of code, so it is pretty low risk.

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#13 2008-02-10 14:12:05

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

v0.642 is released as a beta -- please let me know if you find any problems.

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#14 2008-02-10 18:04:47

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Thanks, have installed and it is currently rebuilding my database ... probably won't have a chance to play with it until later tomorrow.

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#15 2008-02-10 22:27:30

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Genre still isn't working the way I would like it to.  MP3-Boss now reads the new Genres I've defined in WMP and they appear under User_Category.  That's fine, I understand why.  However, if I then modify something else in that record in MP3-Boss and write the modifications back to the MP3 file, the Genre changes to "Other" in WMP and even in MP3-Boss when the file is re-scanned.  Problem seems to be that Content Type in ID3v2a gets set to "(12)Other".  MP3-Boss is only useful to me if changes I make are reflected in WMP and vice-versa.

I've come to realize that changes made in WMP are very asynchronous.  It may take 10-30 minutes (or more?) before they show up in the MP3 file ... this makes things confusing enough.

To further confuse me I also find that when I do a "Refresh" scan in MP3-Boss files which were reciently modified (MP3 file actually updated) in WMP are not scanned.  To get around this I've been copying the file to a new name so MP3-Boss sees it.  Assumed that if the modified time on the file is more recient than the ScanDate in MP3-Boss a file would be re-scanned, but that didn't seem to happen.  (Could be some particular case, in this case ScanDate was 11:58pm and modified time was 12:23am.)

BTY, I think "Band" is working OK ... it seems to be reflected as Album Artist in WMP.  And FYI, WMP has some more complex rules for what it "might" change when it changes "Album Artist" ... if the value of the Artist field, or the value before the first slash in the Artist field, is the same as Band it will change both when changing Album Artist.  It also doesn't always fill in Band when ripping an Album (not sure in what case) ... but in that case it uses the value of the Artist field as the Album Artist.  Who wrote WMP anyway?  smile

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#16 2008-02-11 03:02:35

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

I'll take a look at genre tonight -- should be an easy fix.

I'm surprised about the refresh scan ... although it might be that the check is based on filesize and/or filedate and not filetime.  I'll take a look.

Let me know if you think I need to modify my Band rules ... sounds a bit complicated!  Before I got involved with MP3-Boss, I thought this stuff was easy! smile

Thanks for testing!

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#17 2008-02-11 07:01:37

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Band:  I was just commenting on how bizarrely WMP behaves smile

Last edited by downeast (2008-02-11 07:05:17)

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#18 2008-02-13 21:13:55

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

I keep waiting for the "should be easy" genre fix.  Can't really do anything without it.

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#19 2008-02-14 17:24:35

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

Some work-related problems have been keeping me busy when I should be programming MP3-Boss!  Sorry for the delay...

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#20 2008-02-14 19:18:14

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

I think I made the change you want -- now the ID3v2Category tag will correctly store the User_Category.

The new version is being uploaded now ... so all files should be available in about 45minutes.

Please check it out and let me know if it now works the way you expect.

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#21 2008-02-14 19:46:06

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Am having trouble downloading ... think they are not completely uploaded, will try later.  THANKS!

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#22 2008-02-15 01:27:00

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Thanks John, I tried out 0.643 and am still having trouble.

1.  Tried changing User_Category to "Broadway" and doing Tag/Edited/Auto-Update and the Genre either stayed "Other" or changed to "Other" when viewed from Explorer.

2.  Changed Band to "Foobar3" and doing Auto-Update on those records, not changed as viewed from Explorer.

3.  Copied all those files to another Folder and scanned back into MP3-Boss ... none of the changes made in MP3-Boss showed up.

What am I doing wrong?  Do these changes work when you try them?

Also noticed that when I do a "CopyDown" (tried both Genre and Artist) the count of edited records does not included the records modified by the CopyDown and therefore these changes are not applied to the files when doing an auto-update-all.

Changes I make to fields other than User_Category and Band do seem to get made when I do auto-update-all, so assume I'm doing something right.

Let me know what you find when you have a chance to try similar tests.

-Wren

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#23 2008-02-16 15:44:38

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

I think I found the problem -- I was making the change to one ID3v2 category tag, but not the other.

The new version is being uploaded now ... so all files should be available in about 45minutes.

This version includes a couple of other changes too:
New feature: DateCheck (as well as SizeCheck) option when scanning.
Fixes: Create Tag fix for ID3v2 User_Category. Secondary check if OS reported as VISTA. About screen has transparent field background.

Please check it out and let me know if it now works the way you expect.

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#24 2008-02-17 01:06:52

downeast
Member
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 40

Re: Modifying Files

Thanks John,

A quick test shows:

Genre / User_Category seems to work fine.

Updates to the Band field are still NOT being written into file.  (Proven by copying files to new folder and re-scanning into MP3-Boss.)

When I do a copy down and then do Tag/Edited ONLY, the record count is only 1 and therefore other files for which I copied down the change are not changed.  Guess the workaround is to not use Edited ONLY, but that will change a lot of file date/time stamps needlessly which will lead to a lot more  files needing backup across network.

I frequently get the error "Tag 1 Error ( 5) for FILENAME.mp3", when I do Auto-Update ALL.  When this happens the Edited record is still selected and if I press Auto-Update ALL again everything seems OK.  Only happens sometimes, not aways.  Any idea what that's all about?

-Wren

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#25 2008-02-17 07:23:21

mccaffjt
Admin
Registered: 2011-06-05
Posts: 1295
Website

Re: Modifying Files

I'm going to look at exactly what ID3v2 fields are being written, and try to update them all ...

I'll take a look at CopyDown as well...

Please send me your MP3BOSS.LOG file -- it should help me track down the Tag error.  A Tag 1 error means it was a problem with ID3v1 (the simpler tag).  An error 5 usually means that the file wasn't available or filename error, but I have to check your log to be sure.  Are the files located on external (slow) media that might take a short while to spin up?

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